筆者: 當我聽到妳如何開始妳的學習程式旅程,我很好奇妳是否有收到高爾先生的任何回應?如果妳有或已經有一個機會可以與年輕時的偶像見面,妳會想跟他說些什麼呢?(When I heard about how you started out your own coding journey, I’ve been keeping wondering if you get your response from Mr. Gore? And what would or did you say to him, if you have or already had a chance to meet him in person?)
Liukas: 去年十一月,我的確有親身和高爾先生見面。高爾先生被邀請在芬蘭舉行的 Slush 會議 [註一] 作主題演講時,我有機會與他進行只有三分鐘的談話。這短短的對話中,我太過興奮而高爾先生則用一句讚歎:『喔!我的老天。』反應。遇見我的青春期時期偶像,令我對逝去的青春傷感,因為這次短暫的會面,可看做從十七年前開始的青少女時代的結束里程碑。現在,是時候邁開步伐往前並展開新的旅程。(I did meet Mr Al Core in last November when he came to Finland to give a keynote speech at Slush conference. I had a chance to talk to him even if it was only for three minutes. I was overexcited and Mr Gore said "Oh Gosh". Meeting my teenage hero also made me feel quite nostalgic as it marked the end of an era that started 17 years ago. Now it is time to move on to new adventures!)
筆者: 可以請妳比較當初在 Kickstarter 展開《露比任務》的專案,和妳現在透過建立「露比任務」網站,迄今所完成的工作和貢獻?另外妳對「露比任務」這個網站,有沒有什麼特別的期待,或對未來有什麼遠程的規劃?(Could you compare the journey you started out your own Kickstarter project for “Hello Ruby” and the one you have achieved so far through constructing “Hello Ruby” website? What is your expectation for “Hello Ruby” now even more than a website in the future?)
Liukas: 在過去四年,《露比任務》已從一本原計劃教導幼童編寫程式的童書,而成長為涵蓋計算機基礎課程的童書系列。這系列包括了 《Hello Ruby: Adventures in Coding》,和討論電腦內部架構的續集《Hello Ruby: Journey Inside the Computer》,以及最新出版的第三集:讓 Ruby 在網際網路中冒險的《Hello Ruby: Expedition to the Internet》。 此系列的第四本,內容涵蓋了機械學習和人工智慧將會在今年的秋天於芬蘭出版。《露比任務》在過去已被翻譯成二十五個語言。我們也曾舉辦夏令營,藝術展覽以及主持一個小孩,父母及老師都能參與的目前相當活躍的社群。(Over the last four years Hello Ruby has grown to a book series that covers the computing curriculum beyond coding. It includes Hello Ruby: Adventures in Coding, the sequel Hello Ruby: Journey Inside the Computer and Hello Ruby: Expedition to the Internet. The fourth Hello Ruby book about machine learning and AI will be published in Finnish this autumn. Hello Ruby books have been published in over twenty five languages. We have organised a summer school, an art exhibition and have an active community of kids, parents and teachers. )
現在,我們正進行教師的訓練,並且嘗試建立一個以《露比任務》為中心,使用遊戲般的教學方法來教導學生的課程大綱。在未來裡,我希望能夠製作一個紀錄片,藝術展覽會或者有一天開辦我自己的「露比任務」學校!(Right now we are doing teacher training and building a curriculum around hello Ruby’s playful teaching approach. In the future I hope to be able to make a video documentary, art exhibition and maybe one day start my own Hello Ruby school!)
相信許多讀者都知道 Liukas 來自芬蘭,而她所成長的芬蘭,其教育系統的評鑑在全球的排名算是名列前茅的。在具有公信力的學生能力指標,國際學生能力評量計畫(Program for International Student Assessment)又被簡稱為 PISA,是由經濟合作暨發展組織(OECD)所舉辦。
筆者: 我最近在 Youtube 上看到《艾倫愛說笑》節目中一集有趣的訪問。在這集訪問中,主持人艾倫邀請主演電影《以你的名字呼喚我》兩位男演員,來參加她的訪談。在這段訪問中,艾倫秀出了其中一位男演員,提摩西柴勒梅,為了他的高中統計專案作業,繳交了一段饒舌影片。而在節目中,另一位男演員則指出這份作業最後僅得到 D+ 的成績。我很好奇妳怎麼看這個事件:以饒舌來繳交統計作業是否會牴觸妳的「以更有趣的方法來教導幼童」的信念?或者我們應該強制青少年以社會允許的範圍內表達,甚至不惜扼殺他們的創意?還是我們應當要鼓勵他們以自己喜愛的方式來表達自己,即使這個方式非常不傳統?(I have come across a TV talk show episode “The Ellen show” on Youtube recently. In this episode, the show host, Ellen DeGeneres, interviewed two male actors who stared in a recent movie “Call me by your name”. During this interview, Ellen revealed a video in which the younger star, called Timothée Chalamet rapped to pass his high school statistics project. As the other star pointed out this young actor got a D+ for his turn-in, I wonder how you put your thoughts on this. Would it contradict your general belief in teaching children in a fun way? Or should we kill the creativity when they grow up as teens? Should we encourage them to continue expressing themselves even they use a totally unconventional way?)
Liukas: 妳問了一個非常重要的問題。我在芬蘭接受了我大部分歲月的初等教育。芬蘭的學校系統是非常不依賴考試,相對的,學校的課程通常是遊戲般,沒有標準答案,以及以學童為中心的設計。在我們成長的過程中,我們幾乎不做任何的測驗甚至評估,而這樣的教學方式是否有成效,以其結果來看,我這一個世代受此開放式教育的學童們,在 PISA 的評比中,在世界上的排名居於第一或第二名 [註二],其教育成果可以不說自明。(You ask a very important question. I did most of my schooling in Finland, which has a very non-test driven, playful, open ended and child-centric educational system. We barely did any testing or assesment growing up - and the results speak for themselves as my generation is the one that did really well in the PISA studies, scoring as no:1 or 2 in the world.)
回首童年,對於許多事情我仍舊不特別感到自信,例如,冒險,問問題以及提出創意的解法。我認為這是許多重要的事情中,其中一樣我們可以教導孩子,好讓他們準備好面對未來。與其教導他們一些最終將遭到電腦取代的技能,例如,生硬的背誦,計算以及重複的計算,不如教導他們與電腦互補的技能。好奇心,創意,合作以及同理心則是身為人類的我們,所需要擁有的能力去面對漫長人生考驗。(Looking back, I still didn't feel confident taking risks, asking questions and coming up with creative solutions. I think this is one of the most important things we can teach to kids to prepare them for a future. Instead of teaching them skills computers will always beat us in, like rote memorization, calculation and repeating instructions we should teach children the complimentary skills. Wonder, creativity, collaboration and empathy are all things that will stay with us humans for a long time.)
而當談到編程,學習基礎觀念只是這個方程式的一邊。解決問題的能力,團隊合作,好奇心和毅力是同等的重要。所以,不,我不會給他一個 D+。但我會說跟他說,『你的作業還沒有達到標準,繼續嘗試!』(And even when it comes to programming learning the concepts is only one side of the equation. Problem-solving, team-work, creativity, curiosity and persistency are equally important. So no, I wouldn't give a D+. I would say not there yet, keep going.)
筆者: 如果有可能,妳可以考慮加入一個亞洲女孩的要角在妳的下一本書中嗎?(If possible, could you consider to use an Asian girl as one of the main characters in your next book?)
Liukas: 在第三本《露比任務》系列的書,《Expedition to the Internet》中,妳將可以和 Julia 見面,她是露比的最好朋友,也是 Django 的小妹妹。Julia 這個角色的靈感是來自於我認識的一個華裔小女孩。Julia 希望當她長大有一天能成為科學家,她喜歡機器人學,而且她擁有她可以自己寫程式控制,那些最聰明以及最可愛的人工智慧玩具機器人。Julia 和她的機器人將會是第四本書的主要人物。(In the third Hello Ruby book Expedition to the Internet you’ll get to meet Julia who is Ruby’s best friend and Django’s little sister. Julia is inspired by a little Chinese girl I know. Julia wants to be a scientist when she grows up. She is interested in robotics has the smartest and cutest AI toy robot that she can programme. Julia and her robot will also be central figures in the fourth book.)