筆者: 露比這個角色,是不是以妳自己為模板創作出來的呢?有任何妳的年輕讀者曾經專程對妳說,他們怎麼像或不像露比,但是或許有一天他們也希望能變得跟露比一般,對挑戰毫無畏懼?當妳聽見他們這麼說,妳心裡作何感想,而妳又如何回答他們呢?(Is this character, Ruby, created mostly based on you? Has any of your young readers ever approached you and told you how they are like or unlike Ruby but might want to become as fearless as her? How do you feel and respond when you heard them saying so?)
Liukas: 我是根據我自己的成長經驗來創造露比這個角色。但比起當時還是小女孩的我,露比是比較勇於發表意見,且更不易害羞。我相信,在童年時期所學到的教訓或所讀到的寓言,即使在成年後回想起來,都會成為生命中長久留存的故事片段,與我們成長。當然,成為成年人的我,仍舊被朵貝.楊笙創作的《嚕嚕米》系列「註一」,阿斯特麗德·林格倫的《長襪子皮皮》系列「註二」,以及羅爾德·達爾的《瑪蒂達》「註三」等童年故事所影響呢。(I have used my own experiences when creating Ruby. But I think Ruby is more outspoken and less shy than I was as a little girl. I believe stories stick with us for a long time and even as adults we tend to look back to the lessons we learned as kids. I certainly am still influenced by Tove Janson’s Moomins, Astrid Lindgren’s Pippi Longstockings and Roald Dahl’s Matilda.)
當我收到任何讀者的回覆,不管他們是小孩子還是父母,我都開心地不得了。我經常收到孩子們的塗鴉,根據我所收到的塗鴉,露比是孩子們之間最受歡迎的角色之一。然而其他在《露比任務》系列一書出現的角色,也有他們自己的粉絲呢!特別是雪豹!(I am thrilled whenever I get feedback from kids or parents. I often get drawings from kids and based on them Ruby is one of the most popular characters. But even other characters in the Hello Ruby books have their own fans - especially Snow Leopard!)
而我最感到驕傲的時刻,是小男孩們跑來對我說:『露比是他們最喜愛的一個角色。』我認為,這就是改變世界的開端。(One of the proudest moments for me is when little boys come to me and say Ruby is their favorite character. I think this is how the world changes.)
那就是在學習編寫程式時,女孩們有她們專屬的偶像,同時男孩們也開始把故事中的女孩們,當作他們的偶像。(When girls have role models, but also boys think girls can be their idols when it comes to programming.)
筆者: 妳如何比較妳的《露比任務》和路易士.卡洛爾的經典童話《愛麗絲夢遊仙境》?後者據說在故事之中涵蓋了許多基礎的數學概念,如同妳企圖在妳的書中所做的?(How do you compare your book with Louis Carroll’s "Alice Adventures in Wonderland” which was said to put some abstract but fundamental Math concepts into the storyline as you did with your book?)
Liukas: 這真是個巧合呀!我在《露比任務》系列中的第二本,名為《電腦內部的大冒險》(此書尚未在台灣發行,此書名為筆者暫譯),採用了和《愛麗絲夢遊仙境》一書中一樣的情節。在《愛麗絲夢遊仙境》中,路易斯.卡洛爾安排愛麗絲垂直掉入兔子洞中,而到達奇幻的仙境裡。而就像卡洛爾故事裡的愛麗絲,我安排身負重任的露比,透過一個老鼠洞,抵達電腦內部。(What a coincidence that you should take up Carroll’s Alice's Adventures in Wonderland for it was an inspiration to my second Hello Ruby book Journey Inside the Computer (it hasn’t come out in Taiwan yet.) The same way Lewis Carroll plunged his Alice into a fantastical world through rabbit hole, I’am sending Ruby on a mission inside the computer through a mouse hole.)
《愛麗絲夢遊仙境》始終是我最喜愛的一本書,除了數學,我更喜愛書裡教導的智慧:(Alice is still one of my favorite's and in addition to the math I love the wisdom):
「可以請你告訴我,從這裡,我應該選擇哪一條路往下走呢?」(“Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?”) 「這大部份取決於你想要去哪裡呀?」怪貓說著(“That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,” said the Cat.) 「嗯,我並不這麼在乎哪裡...」愛麗絲說著(“I don’t much care where—” said Alice.) 「那你要去哪裡就不是那麼重要了。」怪貓回答(“Then it doesn’t matter which way you go,” said the Cat.) 「...只要我能到達某個地方!」愛麗絲為被打斷未說完的話,補上了一個解釋。(“—so long as I get somewhere,” Alice added as an explanation.) 「噢,妳肯定會到達某個地方的。」怪貓說著。「只要妳走地夠久。」(“Oh, you’re sure to do that,” said the Cat, “if you only walk long enough.”)
取自於《愛麗絲夢遊仙境》一書的第六章,〈小豬和胡椒〉(Chapter 6, Pig and Pepper)
筆者: 妳如何決定書中每一章節的大綱以及決定選擇什麼樣的角色代表什麼樣的編程主要觀念?尤其那些角色是如此生動地象徵他們在真實世界中的模樣?(How did you decide the story outline for each chapter and choose what characters should be present the key concepts of coding? Especially those characters vividly meet the particular features of their real-life counterparts?)
Liukas: 回想撰寫《程式尋寶記》一書的歷程,這其實並不是一個非常有系統的過程。當我開始為我的 Kickstarter 專案宣傳,我有些關於故事的想法,但並不是一本書。事實上,我幾乎一夜之間成為了童書作家!除此之外,當我決定要自己繪製書中的故事情節,我必須學習如何繪製插畫,因為我並沒有受過任何插畫的基礎,也沒有任何商業插畫的經驗。(Looking back, I must say that writing Adventures in Coding was not a very systematic process. When I launched the Kickstarter campaign I had some ideas for the story, but not a book. I practically became a children’s book author overnight. In addition, I needed to learn to draw as I decided to illustrate the book myself and had no prior experience in illustrating.)
我想,這整個過程就像編寫程式一樣:一開始,得先將一個大問題拆解為較小且較容易解決的小問題們。而多年撰寫部落格的習慣,我得以將我的想法和備用的素描草稿,先紀錄發表在部落格中。同時,在進行 Kickstarter 宣傳的那一年,我也另外建置了一個專屬的網頁,紀錄了每月專案的進度。(I think the whole process resembled coding: starting by decomposing a big problem into smaller pieces. It helped that I had kept a blog for years, saving ideas and sketches for future and I also kept a monthly journal of the progress during Kickstarter.)
筆者: 我非常喜歡一些出現在妳書中的句子。而其中我最喜愛的是第五章中雪豹所說的。引述如下:(I really like some sentences written in your book. And my favorite ones are in Chapter 5. Quoting as following:)
「專注在純粹的事情上」雪豹板著臉勸告著:「忽略那些讓事情不一樣的細枝末節。這會讓妳找到解決的方法。」(“Focus on the pure thing” Snow Leopard stoically advises “Ignore the details that make things different. This will help you come up with a solution”.)
我喜歡這些句子,是因為我非常擅長把自己困在非常複雜的大專案內,然後發現我自己一點如何解決的頭緒也沒有。我很好奇你是怎麼想出這個這麼有智慧的忠告,以及其他切中要點,發人省思的詞語?(I like them because I'm very good at stuck in some complicated big project and found myself clueless. I wonder how did you come up with this wise advice and many others “get to the point” inspiring phrases?)
Liukas: 哈哈,我不曉得耶!我想童書中經常包括了許多尋常經驗得來的實用智慧。而我的工作需要與小孩子們相處,更讓我時時刻刻被提醒,他們是如此讓人驚奇的小小賢哲,時常問一些讓成人們害怕的大哉問。而我的許多書,則是從這些大哉問開始,如:網際網路是一個地方嗎?在電腦裡有些什麼呢?機械可以學習嗎?。(Hahah, I don't know! I think children's books include often a lot of practical wisdom and working with small kids I'm always reminded what Philosopher kings they are, asking the big questions we adults fear. Many of my books have started with these questions: is the Internet a place? What happens inside a computer? Can machines learn?)
筆者: 妳如何設計書末的練習活動?妳可以給予想要成為程式教育家的初學者一些建議嗎?(How do you design those activities at the end of books? Could you give some suggestions of coding exercises for the beginners who want to be a coding educator?)
Liukas:《露比任務》書末活動中,大部分都是不插電的,因為這些孩子已經花了太多的時間在電腦螢幕前了。我相信,藉由離線的活動,我們能發掘許多尚未探索的價值,存在於父母與孩子間的互動之間,尤其是那些更年幼的孩子,他們還尚未能夠讀和寫。(Most of the activities in the Hello Ruby books are unplugged because kids already spend so much time in front of computer screens. I believe there's a lot of value in parents and children exploring and interacting offline, especially with younger kids who don't necessarily read/write yet.)
有許多開放式結果的活動,主要鼓勵學童發展創造力和不同類型的問題解決方式。在設計離線的活動時,我經常從與孩子們的談話,閱讀書籍以及採用在科技世界中已存在的主意,得到靈感。我受到蒙特梭利「註四」, 瑞吉歐方法「註五」以及其他啟發教育的行動。在設計活動時,我認爲,最重要的是,這些活動需要能反映故事的情節和其中的角色。最後,我費了很大的勁去從事圖像設計,我希望這些活動看起來多采多姿且能引起幼童們的興趣。(There are many open-ended activities to encourage creativity and different types of problem-solving approaches. I am often inspired by taking to kids, reading books or adapting existing ideas to the world of technology. I'm very inspired by Montessori, Reggio Emilia and other pedagogical movements. I think it is also important that the activities reflect the storyline and the characters. Finally, I put a lot of thought into the graphic design of the activities as I want them look colourful and interesting.)
對於毫無編程經驗,而希望要獲得真正的編程練習的初學者,我會建議使用由 MIT 研發的視覺式程式語言 - Scratch,來進行教學以及練習。(For actual coding exercises for beginners I would recommend Scratch, the visual programming language developed by MIT.)
筆者: 目前妳的課程設計似乎多是針對年輕的女孩,你有曾經想過設計一些比較性別中性的課程嗎?(Currently, your curriculum design looks like most for young girls, have you thought of designing activities more sex balanced or neutral?)
Liukas: 程式編寫是如此新興發展的領域,尤其當談到該如何教育學齡前幼兒程式概念,在方法上仍舊在探索自己的聲音,而我們仍需要鼓勵不同背景的人們,來一併探索從事這個領域。對我而言,以講述故事的方式來教導學齡前的幼童們,有它關鍵的功能角色。我創作了露比這個如女英雄一般的角色,而且為這個角色繪製了一本童書,是童時的我會愛上的一本書。但是,《露比任務》並不只是為了女孩們而寫。我收到許多小男孩的回應,說他們也非常喜歡露比。在書中,我嘗試創造個性迥異的不同角色,每一個角色都有其相異的背景和其獨特的特質,所以無論男孩或女孩都能夠認同這些角色們,並進而對科技感到興趣。(Programming is such a young field, that when it comes to education for the very young, it's still finding its voice and we just need to encourage many different people to work in this field. For me, stories have been the key. I made Ruby the heroine and wrote a book that I would have liked as a little girl. But the Hello Ruby books are not just for girls. I get a lot of feedback from boys telling that they like Ruby. I want to have different characters, with different backgrounds and different qualities in my books so that both girls and boys could relate to them and get interested in technology.)